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> Gay adoption
Hez
post Apr 23 2005, 12:22 PM
Post #41


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I dont really have a problem with them getting married except for one thing. If we do give them the right....what stops other religions with there beliefs such as poligamy?


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Nobodyspatzy
post Apr 23 2005, 12:25 PM
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QUOTE(LocalH @ Apr 23 2005, 09:19 AM)
Hahahah, so now you're a 'hippie' if you believe in equal rights.

Out of the people in this thread, how would you have acted during the black civil rights movement in the US? Would you uphold 'tradition' or would you fight for equal rights? I know where I'd be...
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I'd fight for the rights of others, because if I didn't, who would fight for me?


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Ana
post Apr 23 2005, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE(Dude @ Apr 23 2005, 06:15 AM)
The main problem is that if gay couples have a kid, they're more than likely going to convince their kid to be gay instead of letting the kid decide themselves.
*


I really don't think so. My school is highly aware and active when it comes to straight/gay/lesbian/bi/transgender issues, but rather than shove ideas down people's throats, they lean our events towards tolerance and understanding eachother. The school is as straight as can be, but it's nice to see a place where the small amount of people with different sexual preferences can go on with their school days without fear of anything going wrong because of that.

And as far as I know, nothing has really gone wrong. We've got three faculty members who are gay/lesbians, and I'm not sure of the students, but I've never seen them walk around trying to convince anyone to change their preferences. Hell, I never even KNEW until they decided to tell us. And even afterwards they are like the same friends and people to me.

Of course things will be different in a parental situation, but we'll just have to wait and see.


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Elusive
post Apr 23 2005, 01:00 PM
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END OF TOPIC POINT: The Netherlands have allowed gay marriage and gay adoption for years. So far their society hasn't collapsed, hasn't had God's wrath reduce them all to pillars of salt, etc. etc.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Who the fuck thinks it's right to make gays second-class citizens, simply because of their lifestyle? I'll tell you - people who have nothing more productive to do than to claim their own lifestyle is 'right', and all others are 'wrong'. And when these people hold the office of President of the United States of Jesusland America - uh oh.

And all these religious righties claiming that gays go against God's Law - weren't there the same people claiming that black-white seperation was God's Law during the US' Civil Rights Movement? Fucking hypocrites.

What scares me is that Monkeyman's attitude is ruling the United States at the moment. 'Queering don't make the world work'. Whoops, it seems tolerance is now controversial, a social taboo. We're all fucking doomed if this arrogance continues.

PLUR, people.
Props to Wizeman for imprinting that phrase in my mind =P


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YesIAmAnIdiot
post Apr 23 2005, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE(LocalH @ Apr 23 2005, 09:19 AM)
Hahahah, so now you're a 'hippie' if you believe in equal rights.

Out of the people in this thread, how would you have acted during the black civil rights movement in the US? Would you uphold 'tradition' or would you fight for equal rights? I know where I'd be...
*



I'd fight for civil rights. And no, I'm not a 'hippie'. I don't live in a counterculture, try to avoid 'the man', and I don't smoke pot. I just believe that people are people, regardless of nationality, race, religion, gender, or sexual preference.

QUOTE(Elusive @ Apr 23 2005, 02:00 PM)
END OF TOPIC POINT: The Netherlands have allowed gay marriage and gay adoption for years. So far their society hasn't collapsed, hasn't had God's wrath reduce them all to pillars of salt, etc. etc.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Who the fuck thinks it's right to make gays second-class citizens, simply because of their lifestyle? I'll tell you - people who have nothing more productive to do than to claim their own lifestyle is 'right', and all others are 'wrong'. And when these people hold the office of President of the United States of Jesusland America - uh oh.

And all these religious righties claiming that gays go against God's Law - weren't there the same people claiming that black-white seperation was God's Law during the US' Civil Rights Movement? Fucking hypocrites.

What scares me is that Monkeyman's attitude is ruling the United States at the moment. 'Queering don't make the world work'. Whoops, it seems tolerance is now controversial, a social taboo. We're all fucking doomed if this arrogance continues.

PLUR, people.
Props to Wizeman for imprinting that phrase in my mind =P
*



Thank you.

This post has been edited by YesIAmAnIdiot: Apr 23 2005, 06:29 PM


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sebmal
post Apr 23 2005, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE(Elusive @ Apr 23 2005, 10:00 AM)
What scares me is that Monkeyman's attitude is ruling the United States at the moment.
*



it has been for fucking 200 years. It's worked fineall this time, and it's the way it should stay.

QUOTE
'Queering don't make the world work'.


I love that quote for 2 reasons: 1) It's hilarious, and 2) It's true.

QUOTE(Nobodyspatzy @ Apr 23 2005, 01:25 PM)
QUOTE(LocalH @ Apr 23 2005, 09:19 AM)
Hahahah, so now you're a 'hippie' if you believe in equal rights.

Out of the people in this thread, how would you have acted during the black civil rights movement in the US? Would you uphold 'tradition' or would you fight for equal rights? I know where I'd be...
*


I'd fight for the rights of others, because if I didn't, who would fight for me?
*



Ugh, This is the shit I'm talking about. You shouldn't fight for other people because you're afraid they won't fight for you if you don't. Fight for your fucking self. If you're too much of a god damn pansy to fend for yourself, you shouldn't be alive. (this isn't directed just towards you, patzy, this is towards everyone)

This post has been edited by Tehmonkeyman: Apr 23 2005, 02:49 PM


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NiktheGreek
post Apr 23 2005, 02:58 PM
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Iori has a point there

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Michael Barrymore is a gay man that was previously married, and had children. Is he any more fit to be a father than a gay man that hasn't had sex with a female and wishes to adopt?

I also know of a man who has two children and decided to have a sex change. The courts decided that he was a better parent than the naturally female mother, and gave him custody.

What should matter is not if the child is raised by a gay or straight person or couple, but if those children are adequately cared for. This means that gay people have the right to adopt. If they're not fit parents, they shouldn't be allowed to adopt. If the best candidate to be a parent is straight, then the child should be adopted by the straight person. Gay people shouldn't be given preferential treatment because they're unable to have a child naturally, they should be considered on equal terms.

If the child is not genetically predetermined to have an attraction to the same sex, a gay parent won't change that. It may help the child to see that gay people are exactly the same as straight people, but are sexually attracted to people of the same gender.


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Nobodyspatzy
post Apr 23 2005, 03:10 PM
Post #48


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QUOTE(Tehmonkeyman @ Apr 23 2005, 11:42 AM)
Ugh, This is the shit I'm talking about. You shouldn't fight for other people because you're afraid they won't fight for you if you don't. Fight for your fucking self. If you're too much of a god damn pansy to fend for yourself, you shouldn't be alive. (this isn't directed just towards you, patzy, this is towards everyone)
*


I suppose I should have clarified...I'm not afraid of fighting for my absolute Rights alone, but do wish to help those when they cannot be helped on their own.

I took no offence to your post monkeyman, in fact, I agree in part, but I feel that there are some circumstances in which one MUST help another, either for duty, or for the sake of one's own view of humanity.


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Sintendo
post Apr 23 2005, 04:53 PM
Post #49

...

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QUOTE(Elusive @ Apr 23 2005, 07:00 PM)
The Netherlands have allowed gay marriage and gay adoption for years.

And Belgium.
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GREG2K
post Apr 23 2005, 05:51 PM
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Well, last I checked, adoption was supposed to be the right for a kid to have a mother and father, not a mother and father to have a kid. No kid asks for a gay couple as his parents, because there are plenty of perfectly decent heterosexual couples willing to adopt, at least over here. And I'm pretty sure the proportion of bad examples to kids affect homosexuals just the same as heterosexuals. So the excuse of a gay couple being better than a cruel heterosexual couple just doesn't work.

If heterosexual couples didn't want to adopt kids and only gay couples wanted, then fuck, I'm for it. But it's not the case. I sure as hell think a kid would prefer having two dads or two moms instead of none of either. But it never gets as simple as that because there's always plenty of adoption claims being made by the heterosexual majority.
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GREG2K
post Apr 23 2005, 05:54 PM
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And as a side note, I'm also pissed because this is one of my governments priorities, when they should be thinking about fixing our relations with the US, and getting our economy back on track. Which are much more important right now than gay adoption.
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Kiko
post Apr 23 2005, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE
No kid asks for a gay couple as his parents, because there are plenty of perfectly decent heterosexual couples willing to adopt, at least over here.

But at the same time, if your original parents decided to throw you away or whatever, you'd be pretty damned thankful for being adopted by another set parents at all. I'm sure alot of kids put up for adoption don't get to pick and choose the types of parents they want. It's not a dating service where you want these qualities in the person and this gender of person to be your match. It's adoption, you're taking the kid in because the original person didn't want him, or couldn't have for some other reason. The kid should be thankful that the person's are giving him a family at all, nevermind the gender of the two parents. The love a homosexual parent can give to their child is no different than that of a heterosexual person.

QUOTE
If heterosexual couples didn't want to adopt kids and only gay couples wanted, then fuck, I'm for it. But it's not the case.

Someone already pointed out earlier that there aren't enough people around TO adopt as it is.


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GREG2K
post Apr 23 2005, 06:11 PM
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That's why I said "over here"
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YesIAmAnIdiot
post Apr 23 2005, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE(GR3G2K @ Apr 23 2005, 06:51 PM)
Blah blah gaybash. The excuse of a gay couple being better than a cruel heterosexual couple just doesn't work. More bashing.
*



How? If a gay couple is crueler or just as cruel, give them to the straight people. But if the gays are nicer, and will take better care of the child, then why the hell should they go to the heteros. And if there are nice heterosexuals around, then let them go to them.

EXAMPLE:
FAMILY A: Nice heterosexuals
FAMILY B: Abusive heterosexuals
FAMILY C: Nice homosexuals
FAMILY D: Abusive homosexuals

A < C <<<<< B < D

EDIT: Ahahahaha.

QUOTE(Elusive @ Apr 23 2005, 02:00 PM)
United States of Jesusland America
*


XD
Elusive wins.
I'm putting that in my 'I FUCKING HATE' box.

This post has been edited by YesIAmAnIdiot: Apr 23 2005, 06:31 PM


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NGC
post Apr 23 2005, 06:25 PM
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It makes me fucking sick. Just because someone is attracted to the same sex, some fascist pinheads decide that they can't get married, adopt, or in some places, have ANY sexual interaction at all. And WHY? Why is it like this? Because a bunch of assholes with a fear of change and a 2500 year old book written by some stoned jews SAY SO.

If you're one of those assholes, FUCK YOU. This entire message is directed right at your fucking face. I hope you get cancer and fucking die. Millions of people are being oppressed and rejected because of your homophobic ass. And don't give me this "they're immoral and they decided to be gay just so they could stand out" bullshit. I'm tired of turning on the TV and seeing straights telling gays why they're that way. Tell you what, shithead. If they chose to be gay, then so can you. YOU FUCKING TRY IT. Let's see you be attracted to your own sex for a little while. What's wrong mr. morality? You say it isn't working?

OF COURSE IT ISN'T WORKING, BECAUSE BEING GAY ISN'T A CHOICE THAT PEOPLE WAKE UP ONE DAY AND MAKE, DUMBASS. CHRIST, DO YOU PINHEADS REALLY THINK A PERSON WOULD JUST TURN THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION UPSIDE-DOWN AND JOIN ONE OF THE MOST UNIVERSALLY HATED GROUPS ON EARTH ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL? FUCK NO. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT GOTHS HERE. It makes me want to jump off a cliff sometimes to think that I live in a world where basic human rights of marriage, sexuality, and parenthood are denied to some people because of a bunch of hypocrites who believe in some invisible guy somewhere in space. If you're a homophobe, you're no better than a fucking racist. End of story.

And come to think of it, the same applies to pedophiles. Anyone who honestly believes that I just went "OKAY I THINK I'LL BE ATTRACTED TO CHILDREN NOW" one day should be fucking killed. I'm not happy about being a pedophile, but since I am, I don't need any people fucking judging me for it, and if you're reading this and you're bigoted against anyone due to their sexual preference, I hope you catch on fire right where you sit. I'm sorry if this seemed to come out of nowhere, but it's been pissing me off for a while now, and greg's topic about gay adoption finally set it off.

Let's start judging people on qualities they can actually CONTROL. kthx.


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Nobodyspatzy
post Apr 23 2005, 06:32 PM
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Alex Kidd is coming back from the SMS...

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On behalf all all my gay/lesbian friends, of past and present, thank you!

QUOTE(NGC @ Apr 23 2005, 04:25 PM)
Because a bunch of assholes with a fear of change and a 2500 year old book written by some stoned jews SAY SO.
*


According to most scholers, and even Jewish ones, it has been found that Moses and some of the other Patriarches of the Hebrews suffered from certain episodes of seizures, mental trips, etc. Besides, I rarely see anyone refer to the Oral traditions, which clarify what the written Law said. (No offence to my fellow Christians, but ask a priest/pastor that question next time you see them!)


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GREG2K
post Apr 23 2005, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE(YesIAmAnIdiot @ Apr 24 2005, 02:17 AM)
QUOTE(GR3G2K @ Apr 23 2005, 06:51 PM)
Blah blah gaybash. The excuse of a gay couple being better than a cruel heterosexual couple just doesn't work. More bashing.
*



How? If a gay couple is crueler or just as cruel, give them to the straight people. But if the gays are nicer, and will take better care of the child, then why the hell should they go to the heteros. And if there are nice heterosexuals around, then let them go to them.

EXAMPLE:
FAMILY A: Nice heterosexuals
FAMILY B: Abusive heterosexuals
FAMILY C: Nice homosexuals
FAMILY D: Abusive homosexuals

A < C <<<<< B < D

Um, that's just my point.
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NiktheGreek
post Apr 23 2005, 07:26 PM
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Iori has a point there

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I do feel sorry for paedophiles. They have a sexual desire towards people that aren't physically ready for it (depending on age), let alone mentally prepared. Kids are quite rightly protected by law to that extent, and I'd never want it to be any other way. The problem is, how do the paedophiles act out their desires? They either break the law or don't do it at all. To live with those urges all your life and never act upon them must be a heavy burden.

Gay people should not have to face discrimination, plain and simple. It amazes me that a different sexual orientation causes people to run the other way. It's like they think they'll catch it or something. Of course, I also believe that equal rights should be equal; "gay parades" serve to reinforce the current divide and to further differentiate the gay community. I don't see yearly "straight parades", and nor would I want to.

I'd actually like to run a simple test. Get eight straight guys and two gay guys I know together, and have any ten homophobes spend two minutes talking to each generally. What I'd like to know is if the homophobic contingent could even identify the homosexual men.


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NGC
post Apr 23 2005, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE(NiktheGreek @ Apr 23 2005, 07:26 PM)
I do feel sorry for paedophiles. They have a sexual desire towards people that aren't physically ready for it (depending on age), let alone mentally prepared. Kids are quite rightly protected by law to that extent, and I'd never want it to be any other way. The problem is, how do the paedophiles act out their desires? They either break the law or don't do it at all. To live with those urges all your life and never act upon them must be a heavy burden.
*



yeah, it sucks.


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Cyberdude
post Apr 23 2005, 08:05 PM
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NGC fucking wins the world. Seriously.

Although I must comment. There is one person who I know is gay, and he has tried to give me a handjob in three seperate lessons. You want to be treated equally? Then treat us equally dolt, you'd be in a lot of shit if you tried to finger a GIRL in a lesson. Fuck off with the double standards.

(if it wasn't clear, You = Him)

But that's probably just him. I know one other gay person, he doesn't molest me or anything, and isn't annoying.


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