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> 2 player mode in sonic 2, how it ruled
PicklePower
post Aug 12 2005, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE(Dude @ Aug 12 2005, 09:31 PM) *

QUOTE(Blueyoshi @ Aug 13 2005, 02:27 AM) *

Actually I was wrong the level does not warp. It just repeats itself. Ballon Park is a great example. Take a look at the two Sreenshots.
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Notice in Screenshot 1 there is a ferris wheel in the background where Sonic is standing by the 3 boppins. In Screenshot 2 Sonic is in the exact same spot by the boppins and there is no ferris wheel. If the level warped then the ferris wheel would be seen in both shots.


Perhaps the bg wraps seperately from the level tiles?


Yeah, my point was: from the start you can go backwards as far as you want, so the level must warp at some point...it wouldn't make sense to have a level repeat so many times...but of course, what does Sega do that makes sense anymore. =P


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Master Tails
post Aug 13 2005, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE(PicklePower @ Aug 13 2005, 12:14 AM) *

Yeah, my point was: from the start you can go backwards as far as you want, so the level must warp at some point...it wouldn't make sense to have a level repeat so many times...but of course, what does Sega do that makes sense anymore. =P

That doesen't mean that warping is involved. The level simply repeats itself time and time again. The way the level is designed is to have it constanly repeat itself. This is why when you go backwards it's there. Warping is really only used from the top of the screen to the bottom. A good example of this is the long shaft in Sonic 2's Hidden Palace Zone. The data is in the rom even though the level was removed. This is seen in many Sonic 2 hack's Sonic 2 Delta by Esreal being the best example. In his latest version there is a lift in the green shaft that warps from the top to the bottom. There are exceptions to this of course but in this situation the 2p levels in Sonic 3 do not use warping.
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Tweaker
post Aug 13 2005, 02:20 AM
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Oh, and Hez, Hill Top works in 2P because it uses the EHZ 8x16 mappings. The BG is a bit fucked though.

Mater of fact, LOst found it as one of the original 4 levels to be included in 2P mode. The special stage was simply a filler.

Just edit the 2P mode level select to take you to Hill Top. I believe the format works like it does in the 1P level select.


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Hez
post Aug 13 2005, 02:39 AM
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QUOTE(Nibesto @ Aug 12 2005, 11:20 PM) *

Oh, and Hez, Hill Top works in 2P because it uses the EHZ 8x16 mappings. The BG is a bit fucked though.

Mater of fact, LOst found it as one of the original 4 levels to be included in 2P mode. The special stage was simply a filler.

Just edit the 2P mode level select to take you to Hill Top. I believe the format works like it does in the 1P level select.

I knew it worked, but it really doesnt....because when you get to the lava it all goes to hell. Id be nice if someone could program it to work and we'd have ONE level to play in two player....yay!


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Master Tails
post Aug 13 2005, 02:55 AM
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As far as I know any non water level could probably be programed sucsessfully into 2p mode. Metropolis would need a lot more work because of all the objects in the level and it has 3 acts. I'm not a rom hacking expert though so I can't tell you how to do it.
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Overlord
post Aug 13 2005, 05:18 PM
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Quiz question. In 2P mode, EHZ, CNZ and MCZ all play different music than 1P mode.

What does HTZ do?


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Tweaker
post Aug 13 2005, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE(Overlord @ Aug 13 2005, 06:18 PM) *

Quiz question. In 2P mode, EHZ, CNZ and MCZ all play different music than 1P mode.

What does HTZ do?

It follows the corresponding value on the 2P music playlist... Its original value. So it plays the normal HTZ music. :P

You could change that though. Matter of fact, if you change the 2P level select screen to point to the 1P level select screen, you can go to any level in 2P mode. Each level has a 2P value, so you can make every zone play different music if you wish.


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Hez
post Aug 14 2005, 03:02 AM
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we need to find out how that 8X16 shit works


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Mask of Destiny
post Aug 14 2005, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE(Blueyoshi @ Aug 12 2005, 10:27 PM) *

Actually I was wrong the level does not warp. It just repeats itself. Ballon Park is a great example. Take a look at the two Sreenshots.
IPB Image
IPB Image
Notice in Screenshot 1 there is a ferris wheel in the background where Sonic is standing by the 3 boppins. In Screenshot 2 Sonic is in the exact same spot by the boppins and there is no ferris wheel. If the level warped then the ferris wheel would be seen in both shots.

Not necessarily. The ferris wheel is in a different tile layer than the foreground and it scrolls at a different rate (for a nice parallax effect). Unless the width of the level and the widht of the background plane are proportioned just so, they won't line up the same on each pass.

QUOTE(drx)
LocalH: I made some tests with the method Sonic Team has made the water and split screen in Sonic games and... this is slow. The more 'screens' you have, the slower the program runs. After putting 3-4 screens on the screen, the program went so slow, that I can imagine why Sega didn't want water in 2p.

I don't see why there would be any extra slowdown from adding water. For split-screen mode they have to calculate a number of things twice (sprite positions relative to the screen, scroll values, etc.) and they probably have two sprite lists (effectively allowing them up to 160 sprites onscreen) which takes time to process as well. The water effect is pretty much just a mid-screen palette change and by necessity (H-Blank is quite short) I don't think it could use a lot of clock cycles.

My guess is that LocalH is correct and they just didn't want to go to the trouble of rewriting their water code to coordinate the H-Int counter for both possible water transitions and the screen split (they would need to reload the H-Int counter value after each H-Int). There would also be some work required to adjust the calculations to take interlacing into account.


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Hez
post Aug 15 2005, 11:58 AM
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so someone could program sonic 1 to do two player?


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Master Tails
post Aug 15 2005, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE(Hez @ Aug 15 2005, 12:58 PM) *

so someone could program sonic 1 to do two player?

Yes it's possible. Any Sonic 1 level except Labyrinth, Scrap Brain Act 3 and Final can probably be made into 2p mode. You could try and rewrite the H-Int counter to support water levels but it would take some time. Final Zone is not a real level and I don't think boss fights are possible in 2p mode.
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Hez
post Aug 15 2005, 09:35 PM
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QUOTE(Blueyoshi @ Aug 15 2005, 11:49 AM) *

QUOTE(Hez @ Aug 15 2005, 12:58 PM) *

so someone could program sonic 1 to do two player?

Yes it's possible. Any Sonic 1 level except Labyrinth, Scrap Brain Act 3 and Final can probably be made into 2p mode. You could try and rewrite the H-Int counter to support water levels but it would take some time. Final Zone is not a real level and I don't think boss fights are possible in 2p mode.

they are, play Sonic 2 beta :P


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Sonic Sue - Whered she go anyways?
WiteoutKing - I dont really hate him anymore, my list just wouldnt be complete without him ;_;
Tsunami - Wheres this cock too?
SFGHQ - just go to the forum, say fuck once or twice, youll see.
BlazeHedgehog - Doesnt seem to have any respect or friends.
lildude2003 - The second living soul on the Sonic Classics forum that thinks I'm a homosexual. Appears to prefur men.
Jurai - Homosexual, seems to actually be a homosexual and still attempt to use the word "gay" as an insult
Jeffery Mewtamer - O WOW I M KEWL I LIEK POKEMN N I TAM TEH WIELD MEWS
Hyper_Zweih - Likes sonic R...good enough reason?
Scarred Sun - Got seduced by power, used to be cool :(
Ambil- is convinced that he isnt a "n00b", and he's a fuckin retard.
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PicklePower
post Aug 16 2005, 09:46 AM
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What about having two seperately playable characters on the screen (a P1 and a P2) without a split screen?


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Overlord
post Aug 16 2005, 01:42 PM
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What, TJ&E 2 style? I suppose it's possible but in a speed-orientated game like Sonic it wouldn't work very well.


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LocalH
post Aug 16 2005, 02:03 PM
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Perhaps someone could hack Sonic 2 to use the Zero Tolerance link cable to run two player mode on two separate consoles? That'd fucking own, if you couldn't see where the other person was, especially with teleport boxes (since you'd just teleport out of nowhere rather than seeing the other play hit the box).


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Hez
post Aug 16 2005, 02:08 PM
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that would fucking own


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Quit your day job and kill yourself
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Sonic Sue - Whered she go anyways?
WiteoutKing - I dont really hate him anymore, my list just wouldnt be complete without him ;_;
Tsunami - Wheres this cock too?
SFGHQ - just go to the forum, say fuck once or twice, youll see.
BlazeHedgehog - Doesnt seem to have any respect or friends.
lildude2003 - The second living soul on the Sonic Classics forum that thinks I'm a homosexual. Appears to prefur men.
Jurai - Homosexual, seems to actually be a homosexual and still attempt to use the word "gay" as an insult
Jeffery Mewtamer - O WOW I M KEWL I LIEK POKEMN N I TAM TEH WIELD MEWS
Hyper_Zweih - Likes sonic R...good enough reason?
Scarred Sun - Got seduced by power, used to be cool :(
Ambil- is convinced that he isnt a "n00b", and he's a fuckin retard.
user posted image
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Overlord
post Aug 17 2005, 12:28 PM
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Yse, it would.


Uber hackers, you reading this? =P


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Mystifying MSN Chats!Overlord: Also, I've discovered something unsettling
Overlord: The Now Playing and Fucking Love/Hate sections on people's sigs
Overlord: Are faded/darked versions of colours
Overlord: Grey is dark white, and the other 2 can be lightened to be red and blue, as they are
NiktheGreek: Yup
Overlord: What flag uses the colour and layout of the setup?
Overlord: RUSSIA
Overlord: IT'S AN INVASION D:
NiktheGreek: XDDDDD

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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drx
post Aug 18 2005, 06:27 AM
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heh, I'd do that, but I'd need an emulator that supports this cable.


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LocalH
post Aug 18 2005, 07:06 PM
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I don't think there is one. You'd probably need the cable, two MDs and two Tototek carts (or two cart copiers). Besides, emulation is not an accurate metric for testing, even with Kega. I was recently helping someone test some code on real hardware, and even though it worked fine on Kega, the joypad did not work properly on real hardware (it turned out to be a lack of joypad initialization). Getting something working on an emulator, and getting it to work on real hardware, are two totally different things (but if you get it working on hardware then there's a high probability that it will also work under emulation).

It would be more handy if an emulator supported the ZT cable over a network connection. Then, if nothing else, you could use two computers on a LAN, running the emulator and the hacked ROM. You might talk to Steve Snake about getting something like that implemented in Kega.


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Dark Sonic
post Aug 28 2005, 08:05 PM
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well, this is just a therory, but Some levels wouldn't work in two player. Hill Top zone wouldn't work because the platforms that carry players down would collapse before the second played got there. in Chemical plant zone, the water would rise before the other player got there. Sky chase wouldn't work (obiously). Winged fortress wouldn't work (obviously). Although aquatic ruin and oil ocean would work.
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