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> 2 player mode in sonic 2, how it ruled
Hez
post Aug 10 2005, 12:59 AM
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I still play that shit today with my friends, and it made me curious. Is it possible to give sonic 2 more two player levels, like hill top and all the other lovable levels, and I also have an even deeper question....o.o. Would it be possible to somehow implent this into another sonic game....such as sonic 3 (its 2 player sucks). Maybe even sonic 1...id rule even if you could only play sonic VS other sonic. Just a thought...


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rika_chou
post Aug 10 2005, 02:29 AM
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drx tried to put 2P into S1 once...

To get it to work with other levels in S2, you would need to figure out how the 8x16 mappings work. I have no idea how to do this myself.

To put it into other games, you would not only need to port the 2P mode, but also have to write up some new deformation, and new mappings for objects that will work in 2P mode. (not to mention there is only one character in S1...)
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McAleeCh
post Aug 10 2005, 04:15 AM
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I'm pretty sure Esrael would know something about the 8x16 mappings, considering his port of the Beta CNZ into Sonic 2 Delta 2 / 3 works flawlessly in 2-player in later versions, which isn't the case if you just port it in and be done with it. =P
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ICEknight
post Aug 10 2005, 09:14 AM
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But in that case he just had to port it, since it already worked in the beta 2 player mode.


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Adam2k5
post Aug 10 2005, 09:16 AM
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Hi there, I was wondering if anbody had ever used soned or ese2 to port say Chemical plant zone in place of emerald hill and vice verca to see if it works in 2p mode? If not I may try this later. Perhaps this might work?
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ICEknight
post Aug 10 2005, 01:25 PM
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No, 'cause you'd need new mappings for the level.


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Master Tails
post Aug 10 2005, 01:37 PM
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Any of the non water levels except Metropolis can be made in 2p mode. Metropolis probably could but it would require more work. I have no idea why water levels don't work for 2p mode. And to answer you're question Adam2k5 no it can't because like ICEknight said it needs new mappings and because act 2 has water you would have to remove it.
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Adam2k5
post Aug 10 2005, 02:09 PM
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oh, right. well you learn something new everyday. Just out of curiosity dose anybody know the technical reason as to why water levels dont work in 2p? I have a feeling its because of palletes?
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LocalH
post Aug 10 2005, 02:17 PM
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I don't know for sure why 2p isn't compatible with water, but I've got a decent idea. I'm sure it's technically possible, but it must have been too hard to implement (since 2p already uses Hint for the screen split, it might have been a major rewrite to get the water Hints running alongside the screen split Hint). As it stands, both 2p mode and water use one Hint. The way Hints work, is that the Hint counter is reloaded at certain times, one of them being after an Hint itself (the other major one being, I believe, line 00). Then, each scanline it decreases the Hint counter by 1. When the Hint counter hits 0, Hint is triggered. This isn't a lot to deal with the way the game is now, as the base for the split is always the top of the screen. However, to do this in 2p, you'd need three Hints - one to set the top playfield's water (if any), one to handle the 2p screen split, and one to handle the bottom playfield's water (if any). So, the game would have to calculate the number of scanlines between the top water split and the middle of the screen, and write that to the VDP. It would have to do the same thing between the middle of the screen and the bottom water split. With the fact that you're already running two player objects in 2p (and the fact that it already has trouble getting both finished in one frame), water is probably best left out of the 2p zones. With just regular 2p mode, the Hint value is static - the split always occurs on the same scanline so there's no calculation required, just plop that value into the VDP Hint register during your Vint at line E0. With just water enabled, the split isn't static, but it's a bit easier to deal with one Hint than it is to deal with three. The VDP isn't like the C64's VIC-II where you only use the actual scanline number itself for IRQs, which makes Hints a bit of a pain to deal with.


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Hez
post Aug 10 2005, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE(Al Bundy @ Aug 9 2005, 11:29 PM) *

drx tried to put 2P into S1 once...

To get it to work with other levels in S2, you would need to figure out how the 8x16 mappings work. I have no idea how to do this myself.

To put it into other games, you would not only need to port the 2P mode, but also have to write up some new deformation, and new mappings for objects that will work in 2P mode. (not to mention there is only one character in S1...)

yep....just like DRX had knuckles in sonic 1 too......


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Quit your day job and kill yourself
user posted image
Sonic Sue - Whered she go anyways?
WiteoutKing - I dont really hate him anymore, my list just wouldnt be complete without him ;_;
Tsunami - Wheres this cock too?
SFGHQ - just go to the forum, say fuck once or twice, youll see.
BlazeHedgehog - Doesnt seem to have any respect or friends.
lildude2003 - The second living soul on the Sonic Classics forum that thinks I'm a homosexual. Appears to prefur men.
Jurai - Homosexual, seems to actually be a homosexual and still attempt to use the word "gay" as an insult
Jeffery Mewtamer - O WOW I M KEWL I LIEK POKEMN N I TAM TEH WIELD MEWS
Hyper_Zweih - Likes sonic R...good enough reason?
Scarred Sun - Got seduced by power, used to be cool :(
Ambil- is convinced that he isnt a "n00b", and he's a fuckin retard.
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drx
post Aug 11 2005, 04:00 AM
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LocalH: I made some tests with the method Sonic Team has made the water and split screen in Sonic games and... this is slow. The more 'screens' you have, the slower the program runs. After putting 3-4 screens on the screen, the program went so slow, that I can imagine why Sega didn't want water in 2p.


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Master Tails
post Aug 11 2005, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE(Hez @ Aug 10 2005, 01:59 AM) *

Would it be possible to somehow implent this into another sonic game....such as sonic 3 (its 2 player sucks).

You could probably increase the size of the levels in Sonic 3's 2p mode but you would have to remove the warping if you wanted anything good.
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rika_chou
post Aug 11 2005, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE(Blueyoshi @ Aug 11 2005, 01:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Hez @ Aug 10 2005, 01:59 AM) *

Would it be possible to somehow implent this into another sonic game....such as sonic 3 (its 2 player sucks).

You could probably increase the size of the levels in Sonic 3's 2p mode but you would have to remove the warping if you wanted anything good.

The levels in S3 do not warp. :P

The level layout simply repeats itself five times.
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PicklePower
post Aug 11 2005, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE(Al Bundy @ Aug 11 2005, 04:03 PM) *

QUOTE(Blueyoshi @ Aug 11 2005, 01:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Hez @ Aug 10 2005, 01:59 AM) *

Would it be possible to somehow implent this into another sonic game....such as sonic 3 (its 2 player sucks).

You could probably increase the size of the levels in Sonic 3's 2p mode but you would have to remove the warping if you wanted anything good.

The levels in S3 do not warp. :P

The level layout simply repeats itself five times.


Are you sure? I haven't done hacking on S3, but I know that from the start of a 2P race you can go backwards into infinity...


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rika_chou
post Aug 12 2005, 12:48 AM
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I have looked at the level layout, and it does repeat itself, perhaps it warps after repeating itself a few times?
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Master Tails
post Aug 12 2005, 01:26 AM
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QUOTE(Al Bundy @ Aug 12 2005, 01:48 AM) *

I have looked at the level layout, and it does repeat itself, perhaps it warps after repeating itself a few times?

It would have to warp. When you go backwards it still repeats.
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Ultima
post Aug 12 2005, 01:42 AM
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warp? it wraps, doesn't warp =p


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Overlord
post Aug 12 2005, 03:02 PM
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What Ultima said =P


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Master Tails
post Aug 12 2005, 09:27 PM
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Actually I was wrong the level does not warp. It just repeats itself. Ballon Park is a great example. Take a look at the two Sreenshots.
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Notice in Screenshot 1 there is a ferris wheel in the background where Sonic is standing by the 3 boppins. In Screenshot 2 Sonic is in the exact same spot by the boppins and there is no ferris wheel. If the level warped then the ferris wheel would be seen in both shots.

Edit: The sreenshots are pretty small (I couldn't get them any bigger without being to big) so there a little hard to see.
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Dude
post Aug 12 2005, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE(Blueyoshi @ Aug 13 2005, 02:27 AM) *

Actually I was wrong the level does not warp. It just repeats itself. Ballon Park is a great example. Take a look at the two Sreenshots.
IPB Image
IPB Image
Notice in Screenshot 1 there is a ferris wheel in the background where Sonic is standing by the 3 boppins. In Screenshot 2 Sonic is in the exact same spot by the boppins and there is no ferris wheel. If the level warped then the ferris wheel would be seen in both shots.

Edit: The sreenshots are pretty small (I couldn't get them any bigger without being to big) so there a little hard to see.


Perhaps the bg wraps seperately from the level tiles?


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