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> Yet another nail in the PS3's coffin, Okay, NOW Sony's jsut gone too damn far...
ωιτεουτκιης
post Nov 10 2005, 12:11 AM
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... to the point of potentially crippling the video game rental/used industry.

Sony patents new disc technology that will prevent game discs from being used by anyone other than the original buyer. (link provided by RocketDarkness)

Oh. God.
Okay, let's look at this for a second.
This prevents piracy. Okay, that's fair. HOWEVER...
This also prevents the ability to rent games.
This also prevents the ability to buy used games.
This ALSO prevents the ability to bring games to others' consoles and play there.

And if your PS3 breaks and is no more?

All your PS3 games become worthless.

You really know how to turn off customers, Sony, I gotta hand it to ya.


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RocketDarkness
post Nov 10 2005, 12:16 AM
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CrimsonNugget
post Nov 10 2005, 12:16 AM
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Oho!

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I don't rent or buy used games.


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Zweih
post Nov 10 2005, 12:20 AM
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habeeb it

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As I said in the IRC; What the hell? That's fucking retarded. =/


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Hogulus
post Nov 10 2005, 12:56 AM
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so i herd u like mudkips

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The irony is that the pirates will probably be getting more out of the system than the consumer, given how they've proven to be some of the most resourceful fuckers on the planet. Sony's recently started to lose it when it comes to anti-piracy shit (read: that whole rootkit thing), but this is just stupid.
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Nash
post Nov 10 2005, 01:06 AM
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Sony seem a little to confident... I mean, who the hell comes up with such an idea? Shouldn't someone atleast stop up and think "Holy crap, what an bad idea". Guess not. Well, Sony are assholes and they dig their own grave so it's okay.


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Mad Gear
post Nov 10 2005, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE(Hogulus @ Nov 10 2005, 12:56 AM) *

The irony is that the pirates will probably be getting more out of the system than the consumer, given how they've proven to be some of the most resourceful fuckers on the planet.


Pretty much. If I buy a PS3 regardless if this happens or not, I'm 99 percent sure I'll be modding it anyway.

Sony will hopefully realize this is going to do more harm then good for them before it's too late though.


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RocketDarkness
post Nov 10 2005, 01:52 AM
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Whee, you also can't return an opened game ever.


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Lewi-G
post Nov 10 2005, 02:05 AM
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Well they have fucked up this time. I was having problems deciding whether to go for the 360 or the ps3. As I rent lots of games I think that has decided it for me.

Well done Sony!


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LocalH
post Nov 10 2005, 02:12 AM
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You're a complete bastard and we all hate you

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I love how people assume it's going to be used in the PS3.

I mean, not that I don't think it's a stupid idea, but I'm not screaming "OMG PS3 USED MARKET KILLED BY SONY EVIL BASTARDS". Even though I do indeed think Sony are both evil and bastards. =P


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NiktheGreek
post Nov 10 2005, 06:07 AM
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Iori has a point there

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DISCLAIMER: This hasn't been announced for actual use in the PS3 yet. I'm not jumping to any conclusions. Therefore, everything I say from here on is purely speculative.

The move against used games would make sense, from a corporate financial standpoint. Sony makes it's money on the sale of new games only. Piracy is only a minor issue and the people who practice it obviously aren't prepared to spend any money at all, and aren't adverse to doing things that invalidate their warranties to avoid spending money. By comparison, the sale of used games is legal, profitable for all involved parties (ironically, it's retail - the least deserving) and attractive to consumers in terms of price and ease. The moneymen of the industry hate used games, because it means they're being undercut and taken out of the equation.

Of course, this bones both consumers and retail, and it's for this reason that I can't see Sony applying it to regular retail PS3 games. If the consumer can't get cheap games, they may well just stop buying games or only buy for other consoles, leading to a downturn in PS3 business. Retailers would also be considerably pissed off that the lucrative after-market they've created would be shattered, and would likely retaliate by getting behind the Xbox 360 more.

It actually makes far more sense as a way to control rental profits from officially approved Sony outlets. If there's a portion of the disc that can be written over to kill the security code, surely it would be possible to write new codes over for rental purposes? It could be a way of shifting the focus from selling the game to rental places at a standard price. A new scheme could be implemented in which companies only pay for the writing equipment, with games being delivered for free but a fee charged for each new security code. This would ensure that not only does Sony get a portion of the money from every single rental, but rental outlets would be less risk-averse when it comes to getting obscure or poorly-marketed software in.

My guess is that it's not even going to be implemented in the PS3 at all, to be honest.


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GREG2K
post Nov 10 2005, 07:17 AM
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I think it would be great if the PS3 had that. That would mean the end of Sony in the gaming industry.
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NiktheGreek
post Nov 10 2005, 07:28 AM
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Iori has a point there

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End? Failing for the first time didn't stop Atari, it didn't stop Sega and it hasn't stopped Nintendo. It takes multiple goes. At the very least, this time around Sony could fall back on the PSP.


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TopHat
post Nov 10 2005, 07:32 AM
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> ifconfig eth0 up

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Nik said it all, really.

But seriously, this isn't even a tough thing to do - just encrypt the entire disc, have all players equipped with a small writing laser and have them carve a big groove over the authentication key once it's been read. Wow? Nah.

And although Sony was stupid enough to rootkit, as Nik said I doubt they would be _THAT_ stupid.


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GREG2K
post Nov 10 2005, 07:34 AM
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QUOTE(NiktheGreek @ Nov 10 2005, 02:28 PM) *
End? Failing once didn't stop Atari, it didn't stop Sega and it hasn't stopped Nintendo. At the very least, Sony could fall back on the PSP.

The difference is that by the time Sony loses it in terms of offering a decent gaming platform, it will have lost all dominance in the AV market, thanks to companies like Samsung and Apple. Sony would only have Columbia Tristar and Sony Music to rely on; hence, it would be an absolute nobody in the hardware market, and this happens because other people can offer the same product cheaper and with less restrictions. Name a single market where Sony is king? Yeah, videogames. And the PSP's a wake-up call; you either compete with a decent product or you'll come second, since brand recognition won't last forever.
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The Little Red Man
post Nov 10 2005, 07:46 AM
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Completely ridiculous idea.


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NiktheGreek
post Nov 10 2005, 07:54 AM
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Iori has a point there

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QUOTE(GREG @ Nov 10 2005, 12:34 PM) *

QUOTE(NiktheGreek @ Nov 10 2005, 02:28 PM) *
End? Failing once didn't stop Atari, it didn't stop Sega and it hasn't stopped Nintendo. At the very least, Sony could fall back on the PSP.

The difference is that by the time Sony loses it in terms of offering a decent gaming platform, it will have lost all dominance in the AV market, thanks to companies like Samsung and Apple. Sony would only have Columbia Tristar and Sony Music to rely on; hence, it would be an absolute nobody in the hardware market, and this happens because other people can offer the same product cheaper and with less restrictions. Name a single market where Sony is king? Yeah, videogames. And the PSP's a wake-up call; you either compete with a decent product or you'll come second, since brand recognition won't last forever.

In this instance, you're simply pointing out other reasons why Sony will continue to pour money into it's gaming wing. Microsoft subsidises it's money-losing games division with it's other departments, and Sony can do the same. They'll pour money into the gaming division in an attempt to stay on top of it (whether this works is up to the public, of course). Even if the next generation of consoles ends with Playstation 3 in second or third place, Sony will keep going because they feel it's their best hope. The best thing they could do is to actually get out of non-gaming hardware in order to cut R&D costs. As for the PSP, as far as I can tell the system is holding it's own against the DS. First place is still far from being decided.

Anyway, I don't know why you should be rejoicing about the prospect of Sony leaving the market - all signs then point to Microsoft dominance, which is no better or worse than Sony control.


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GREG2K
post Nov 10 2005, 08:19 AM
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QUOTE(NiktheGreek @ Nov 10 2005, 02:54 PM) *
Anyway, I don't know why you should be rejoicing about the prospect of Sony leaving the market - all signs then point to Microsoft dominance, which is no better or worse than Sony control.

I really think Microsoft could do a better job than Sony. For a start, they've been making games for quite some time, and most of them are pretty good. Second, since the company generally has a bad reputation because of Windows (not that most people who hate Microsoft have a reason to do so), they have to deliver a better product because brand recognition just won't work with them. Sony however, has always been highly regarded by the general public, and their brand has been consistently powerful; they will get a big chunk of market share purely because their machine is a Sony machine.
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ωιτεουτκιης
post Nov 10 2005, 08:27 AM
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Somehow I get a kick out of them being at each other's throats in video games, yet as we speak I (and many of you, for that matter) am typing from a Sony-made computer running Windows XP.

Also:
QUOTE
At the very least, this time around Sony could fall back on the PSP.

Looking at the upcoming DS lineup, that "last hope" doesn't look like it's going to be standing long


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Sonic Community bin/cue selfish Sonic Community give money selfish so selfish Sonic Community. Sonic Community selfish Community Sonic bin/cue. Money selfish selfish, in light of Sonic Community, hereby selfish money Sonic.

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Nash
post Nov 10 2005, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE(ωιτεο&# @ Nov 10 2005, 05:27 AM) *

Somehow I get a kick out of them being at each other's throats in video games, yet as we speak I (and many of you, for that matter) am typing from a Sony-made computer running Windows XP.

Also:
QUOTE
At the very least, this time around Sony could fall back on the PSP.

Looking at the upcoming DS lineup, that "last hope" doesn't look like it's going to be standing long
True, true... so far the PSP have had mostly subpar re-releases and 'decent' games, the only game somewhat good is perhaps Ridge Racer or Lumines.
If Sony don't start getting alot of good deals with developers or do something themselves PSP is just gonna be a really expensive video and mp3 player, i.e. pull a N-Gage. PSP has just been heavily advertised, so far I don't really think there's more then it's design that's appealing.


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